Museums n'That
Museums n'That
Choccy butt-butts
Ant and Dec. Monica and Rachel. Wikipedia and Museums. The two best friends anyone could be!
Our guest this week is lovely Hope Miyoba, Wikimedian-in-residence for the Science Museum Group. Meg and Sara find out why museums and Wikipedia get on like a house on fire, talking through women in Leeds, human remains in museum collections and misrepresented histories.
We also discuss Bruce and Barack, wild nights of passion – oioi - and choccy butt-butts.
Listen, subscribe and leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and all the usual podcast suspects.
Look at you, you look nice. Look at me. I look like the character that they have in every single 80s teen film that... likes books. That likes reading books, and then at the end the fit boy goes out with her because he's realised that he actually likes girls with personalities.
Sara:Yeah, yeah. I don't even know what to say to that, but sure.
Meg:Hello, it's us and welcome to the Museums n'That Podcast where each episode we have a chinwag and serve you the steaming hot tea on the things that museum people love the most. We're your hosts, Meg and Sara from Leeds museums and galleries. And we get to know the people behind the objects by asking them the questions that you really want to know. I've got a steaming hot tea here.
Sara:That's good isn't it. Looks like you've coloured in that mug. That is such an old person thing to say isn't it.
Meg:Yeah I'm embarassed. It's like saying it's like, it's like saying, Oh, you've got a rip in your jeans, you need to get some new jeans. Shut up Mum it's fashion.
Sara:Anyway, how are you? What's been going on?
Meg:My hedge has fallen down. My hedge has fallen over. Like my enthusiasm for life.
Sara:Oh God.
Meg:Yeah, it's really... I feel like all my hopes and dreams are in that hedge. And a guy came around today who's got a gardening company, and it's called Live lawn and prosper.
Sara:Brilliant.
Meg:Brilliant. And he was really nice. And anyway, he just knocked on the door. He was like faffing around with it knocked on the door and was like, yeah, can't do it. I just... everything is just so bad. Everything's bad and sad.
Sara:You know, you've scuppered him with your hedge.
Meg:Do you know what, I am looking forward to this today. I haven't talked to anyone in a really long time.
Sara:It's a tough one.
Meg:It's been hard. What's been new with you?
Sara:Yeah it's been alright this week? Actually a good thing that happened. Pam sent us in the post...
Meg:Pammy Pammy.
Sara:Yeah, Pam-ba-lam, she'll hate me for saying that.
Meg:That's Luke's mum by the way everyone, that's Sara's mother in law.
Sara:Yeah, she sent us a porta-puzzle in the post. And so now we have a porta-puzzle it means that I can put it away and not do it. And not look at it either. So win win?
Meg:That's pretty good to be fair.
Sara:Yeah. I was very impressed with it.
Meg:Congrats to you - also, puzzles? Very lockdown of you,
Sara:isn't it? Yeah, I know. I just can't get into it. I want to... I like it better when there's more people helping and I don't have to do as much. And I just provide the entertainment.
Meg:So today, we've on Hope, who... interesting one today actually, so we know Hope because she did a project placement with us about a year ago on Wikipedia.
Sara:Pre pre lockdown times.
Meg:Yeah. So Hope did like a Wikipedia project with us. And she's gone on to do the same at the Science Museum group where she is currently. So yeah, we're gonna find out a little bit more about like the connection between Wikipedia and museums and why museums think it's so important. And the kind of stories that she's uncovered. And also what it's like to kind of be a new museum professional, I guess and work in museums.
Sara:That's lots of good stuff.
Meg:Isn't it?
Sara:And she's really cool. And I feel a bit intimidated because she's quite young and cool.
Meg:She is very cool. She also does... once I was at a gig, literally, like my one gig of the year took like two hours to get ready for it. I was like telling everyone that I was going to a gig. And I turned up and Hope was actually just there. I just thought yeah, you just do this all the time, don't you? Because you're cool. Okay, she's in the waiting room. We're keeping her waiting!
Sara:Right. Okay, well we're one minute past. Let's let's crack on.
Hope:Yeah, I can hear you guys. How are you all?
Meg:Oh so good Hope. How are you?
Hope:I'm good. I'm living life. Vibing it out? Can't wait for the lockdown to be over. How have you guys been throughout this whole lockdown pandemic thing?
Sara:You know, just here. Literally just here.
Meg:Yeah we still exist. And that's nice. But God, what a time? Hope. We were just saying, we just did our little introduction bit. Firstly, it's hilarious, because we were both like, yeah, Hope's really cool. And then you've just come straight in and used the word vibing.
Hope:Oh, the pressure now and I'm like, Oh, God, I have to be actually interesting.
Meg:Hope you're so interesting. But we're just saying I can't remember when we last saw you like when? When was your project placement with Leeds?
Hope:Late 2019. November to March 2020. But I think the last time I saw Meg was when you me Milo and like the rest of the team went out for drinks.
Meg:Yeah, yeah.
Hope:And I think the last time I saw you Sara was like your impromptu bachelorette party. Where did we go? It was a thing was after Emmi's exhibition. And then we went out for like drinks later. Yeah,
Sara:Yeah, that's true. That is a long time ago. A long time ago, but then also kind of doesn't. Ah sad, going out for drinks.
Meg:I know.
Sara:Soon!
Hope:Yeah.
Meg:Okay so, Hope firstly, the first question we always ask everyone is who the flip, are you?
Hope:Okay, so Hi, everyone, I'm Hope. And I'm a Wikimedian in residence. So I basically work like for Wikipedia, and museums and galleries, and bridge the two together in kind of helping with audience outreach and any kind of resources that museums and galleries that they might not be able to put onto their own websites, but could use somewhere else. And so I'm there to kind of do that for them, or give them advice on like, what they will do, what kind of articles work well, with people, kind of the ones that don't and resourcing. Because Wikipedia is so huge, and it has so many sister projects that people just don't know kind of where to start. So that's kind of me, and that's who the flip I am I guess.
Sara:I'm jealous, because my job title is... I want to change it. I'm going to campaign for this. But wikimedian is very cool. Sounds fun. Sounds interesting. You know, it's all of the things isn't it. So what's a normal day for you at work? I mean, normal times were you in and around collections, what type of people did you work with?
Meg:Also, we should we should just tell everyone actually where you work Hope, the Science museum group, right? And is it Bradford?
Hope:Yes. So I don't really have like, a typical day, every day is kind of like different because I get to work with a range of people from every department kind of really. So some days I will be with, say, the collections team. And we'll have a meeting like, Oh, yeah, this is great in our collection. Do you want to put that on to Wikipedia? Or what do you think we could... that hasn't been in circulation from the collection for ages, that'll be quite interesting that people would like to read about or see if we can put any images up online. And then I'll kind of sit with them and do that. I'll work with people in the archives team and see what their ideas are. I'm currently working on like a volunteering project as well to kind of get volunteers with the Science Museum group interested in Wikipedia, or sometimes it is just really like, a boring office day where I'm just sat in the office, cracking away with like, writing articles or making spreadsheets and stuff. So I don't know if I really have like a, I wake up, I have coffee and went to the office at 8am and start answering emails, which I'm kind of really grateful for that and get to have such a variety in the work I do makes it really fun. But yeah, I guess each day is so different. So I don't really have like a typical working day, yeah.
Meg:We've asked quite a few people this question when we've interviewed them. And generally we're finding that everyone who works in museums is the exact same like, just the other day you can be like, conserving some Roman coins. Like there's literally no one answer to that question ever. So you mentioned about how there's like a bridge between, like Wikipedia and museums, and how Wikipedia and museums are kind of like best friends, right? But so so why is that? Like, why are there things that maybe aren't suitable to go on a museum website, but are suitable to go on Wikipedia?
Hope:I guess, with museums, they kind of have to be much more conscious of what they put on their website. I've mainly learned this with working with the Science Museum group. So they have some artefacts that are considered culturally sensitive. And they have to be kind of mindful of how they present them on the website, collections and in exhibitions as well. They don't want to write certain descriptions that kind of come across, insensitive or don't incorporate certain people's cultures, or they have rules about certain things that they cannot show on their website. So in the Science Museum there is a collection of like shrunken heads from like Peruvian and kind of Aztec culture, and one of the Science Museum policies that they cannot show human remains. So they can't put that on the Science Museum website. But that's something that could work perfectly fine on Wikipedia, because Wikipedia is much more freer with their rules. Obviously, you have to be sensitive and how you write things and use neutral language, and present it nicely not to offend anyone from that culture, or someone else. But Wikipedia has that freedom where you can actually show those items and you can write about them in a much more, I guess, free away if that makes sense. Like, you can just go into detail more about it and the kind of the rituals they did and centred around the shrunken heads. Whereas on the website, it's kind of like just a short, quick description of what it is, you kind of don't really show the picture. And you have to be very specific with the phrasing and languages. So that's the best way I can explain it.
Meg:That's really interesting as well, because I guess with Wikipedia, someone who's using Wikipedia, you assume has probably used it before. It's such a widely used resource. And obviously, a huge thing with sensitive objects is telling the full stories of things. And with Wikipedia, you know that if something's hyperlinked, you can then go in to a deeper level of information and find the page on that thing. And it's interesting as well, that Smez do you remember when we were talking to Kat last series about human remains. But it's just really interesting how museums have different different strategies for different collections.
Sara:Yeah. And also, I kind of... it made me think that what you were saying about like Wikipedia being a free space and more neutral, I suppose for want of a better word, it's very - I mean it's literally like very black and white. There's no emotion connected to it. Whereas museums are seen as very emotive places, and they have a lot of history connected to them. And at the minute, like, that's a massive point of discussion around the colonisation and decolonizing collections, and all museum services are going through that, and rightly so. And this is a really good way of exploring how to do that. And through a different channel that is more objective. I suppose. So I never really thought about it like that, because I look on Wikipedia, because I'm like, oh, who's so and so? And what were they in? And I'm just stalking, essentially. But that's, that's really interesting that like Meg was saying, you have these different layers to how you can get information across. And it's actually really useful for organisations, such as museums.
Hope:Yeah, definitely. I think, also with that, what the Science Museum are trying to do is, they know Wikipedia is used by so many people, they want to make sure that the information that's actually going on there is like expert knowledge or has been researched well, just because anyone can edit Wikipedia. So they want to make sure that whatever they are adding on that is actually helpful and going to teach people something. And like you said, people sometimes just go and then just like, oh, who is this person? Or they're kind of like, they don't really read that much into it. So I think it also helps with like spreading of accurate information and getting rid of any kind of like, misinformation on certain topics that museums sometimes... maybe they can't go into detail on, but then they can kind of use that on Wikipedia instead.
Meg:That's a really interesting point actually, like, how it's just accepting that people are... that it's there, and people are going to write things. So you might as well kind of, so you have the responsibility and the agency, I guess, to take, take ownership over that in some way and ensure that the information that people are reading is right. And this reminds me of like a classic gag when we were at school was to edit Wikipedia, which is literally like the lamest gag I can ever think of in my life. There was this guy who went to one of the schools near mine, and everyone used to fancy him. Anyway, he had like he was gorgeous and amazing and like the one quirk about him because he was ultimately pretty boring was that he couldn't smell. So not being able to smell is called anosmia. Like someone from my school found the Wikipedia page for anosmia and added a list of notable people with anosmia and put his name on there. And it was like everyone was like woah, brilliant, amazing.
Sara:God that is hilarious.
Hope:I love that that's so funn. But also please don' vandalise Wikipedia.
Sara:I think there must be quite a barrier for you to getting people into like understanding Wikipedia because it's one thing especially with human remains policies and stuff, getting someone to talk about it for press, that we have complete control over to a certain extent, you know, things that we put out to putting it on a public place where Joe Bloggs Sara Merritt over here can just go in and be like, Henry VIII actually liked frogs. I don't know where I got that from, but yeah, I just think that that's a bit mad so how... excuse my ignorance, but do you get if you're the original author, do you get like a notification or do you just kind of have to just check in occasionally?
Meg:Are there like, Wikipedia policeman?
Hope:Yeah. Yeah. So when you write a Wikipedia article or page or even pages you're interested in, there's like a little star icon. And what that does is it puts you a put is, oh my god, I can't speak anymore. To watch list. And so anytime anyone makes an edit, adds information, links it to something else, or like one of the Wikipedia sister websites, it sends you an alert, and you get to see like, the edit they made, where else it's been linked to. And they also have like a little talk page. And people can like write the reason why they put in that certain edit or suggestion. So like you said, You thought Henry the eighth like frogs. So you could be like, yeah, I read this resource, found out he likes frogs. So I added it, what are your thoughts? And then you can kind of have conversation with the author or whoever is in charge of that page. And then you can usually be like, you know, I think that's cool. We'll leave it on there. Or you can be like, actually, there's not much evidence to support this, maybe we shouldn't add it in until we actually have more resources to back it up. So yeah, there's definitely a way of keeping track and kind of like policing, what goes on to certain Wikipedia pages. So yeah, you can definitely watch out for stuff on Wikipedia, and kind of have conversations around what is considered good knowledge and bad knowledge and what's helpful and what's not helpful and like just make it a much more accurate place. If that answers your question. I think?
Sara:Its interesting, isn't it? Because you wouldn't, I mean, you do get questioned on it, obviously. But I don't think as a general member of the public, you would necessarily question a museum's, you know, knowledge or why they've told the story in a certain way. I think it happens more now. But then with Wikipedia, because it's such an open platform, you're like, well, I could have done this, therefore I can take it away. It's a completely different way of thinking about knowledge and, and history. So it's really interesting. I think. Because you must have worked on so many articles now. And I can't even imagine how you keep track of it. But are there any that kind of stand out as things that you've liked working on?
Hope:Oh,you know what I think some of my favourite articles I've written was when I was with Leeds museums and galleries - oh god, the Science Museum are going to kill me. But I think it's because that's kind of where I first
Sara:We're all pals, we're all Yorkshire pals, it's fine. started out with Wikipedia. And that's kind of where I got to experiment a lot and figure out which things worked, which articles didn't and I think my favourite probably is Elizabeth
Meg:I bet that's a really rare example of that, that you've Gascoigne and that was like t e first article I ever wrote o to Wikipedia. And she was part o the Gascoigne family in otherton and she's... I just f und her so interesting about how much effort she put into kin of the history and enriching otherton House. She went into e en designing stained glass wind ws that were, I think they I do't think that there anymore. ut like, they used to be part of the house originally, before it got renovated, and it chan ed ownership over time. And she as just like this well educat d, remarkable woman. And I j st found that so interesting. ut the fact that she didn't hav a Wikipedia page, mentioning er at all. My other favourite is the one on Agnes Lister who wa Joseph Lister, his wife. And sh played a huge part in his wor and his research. And she had much stronger knowledge o surgery and anaesthetics than h did, because he learne everything from her father. S she had already known so much b the time that they'd met and wa probably much more expert tha he was. But obviously, due t like how women were viewed, sh didn't get as much notoriety a she should have gotten.
Hope:It only happens like once in a blue moon, I don't have to never come across before. deal with it. But yeah, I think those I think those two are probably my favourite ones that I have written, or maybe one on
Meg:Firstly, Hope, sorry, I believe it's actually pronounced Cyril Livingston, who was a dressmaker and an actor. And he was just this like larger than life, pro LGBT character who lived in Leeds and just like, lived this life of like lavishness because he's dedicated to all the rich people in da club. of Leeds and make them thei dresses and garments and stuff
Sara:Oh my god it absolutely isn't. And unfortunately, I don't kno how like appropriate o inappropriate it is but I f und this kind of like blog pos on him, and a former student of Leeds University had had like a night of passion with him, nd like, had written ab ut their escapades together. ut I was like, is this is th s? Or is this not appropriate o add on his Wikipedia page, so kind of left it out to kind of not step on anyone's toes, nd be as sensitive as as I coul. But it was such a great story bout how they'd met like, in a lub, and danced the night away and then went home together an just had another great time. Gr at story. Yeah.
Hope:My apologies.
Meg:But that is... Do you know those stories, though, we said this in a previous episode with Owen, who works at Dr. Jenner's house, which is a historic house down in near Gloucester. And, and it's those like, we were talking about ghost stories. And it's those like, personal stories about people. Like sometimes the gory bits, maybe the passionate bits that everyone actually really wants to find out. And I saw a meme the other day about like about Wikipedia, and this, this might hurt your soul? I don't know. But it was about how basically everyone always just clicks on personal life. It's like you just go straight to personal life, because you want to know the relationship, drama, and all that stuff.
Sara:I'm always disappointed when that bit is really small. And I'm like, I don't care about the history, I don't care about their career. I just want to know who they had an affair with.
Meg:My favourite thing to do is to like, go, in fact, have you guys ever played the Wikipedia game?
Hope:Yes, I have.
Meg:Course you have.Wikimedian over here, course she has. It's my best thing, for anyone that doesn't know what this game is. It's where you get given, like one page, and you get given another page. And you have to get to that page in like the lowest number of clicks and it's, it's nerdy, but it's fun. And I always whenever I'm watching TV, I always just go and like look at the actor's personal lives. And the other day, I was watching Parks and Rec. And it had never clicked to me that Rashida Jones is Quincy Jones's daughter.
Hope:Really?
Meg:Quincy Jones and I went in like this hole of looking up her sister and her sister was dating Tupac when he got shot.
Hope:Yeah, though, I think they were like engaged as well or something.
Meg:Oh my god Hope of course, you know this, you're literally so cool I die. Me being like, did you know that Tupac got shot?
Sara:Like, yes.
Hope:Oh, my goodness. But honestly, I do the same thing like that is the first thing I do. Anytime I get sucked into a TV show. Or anything. I'm like, straight onto Wikipedia. What do they have written about them? No I fully enjoy it and use Wikipedia just like everyone else. It has changed a bit since doing the job. Because I'm like, they didn't format that properly. Or they should have used this heading instead, or they should have done this.
Sara:I was going to say, is that what you do? You can't enjoy it anymore because you're just looking at the formatting and how they've put a massive red herring in and...
Hope:It kind of like your work brain does switch on. Do you guys ever experienced that in your like daily life with certain things? Or is it just kind of like a weird niche thing?
Sara:Oh, no, totally go to museums and I'm always perving on all of the signage and the leaflets...
Meg:Weirdest thing you've ever said.
Sara:I'm just like, well it's not very accessible is it? Or
Meg:We did like a whole episode where I think series one, maybe actually, that looks very good. And I'm going to nick that idea. But yeah, totally, it is hard to get the balance. But you do have to kind of put yourself to one side and go. I have come here for fun. I am not here for work. No one is paying me to be here. And in fact, I might have even paid to get in if you're lucy. series two, can't remember Sara. I can't remember too long ago, but we did an episode where it was me and Sara talking about our jobs. And obviously, a lot of my job is social media. And it is literally impossible Hope to get away from social media at any one time. Like, even if I see a meme. I'm like, Okay, how can I make that into a museum meme or just going on Twitter or Instagram. I'm like, it's just work. It is just work. So it is really hard to get away from and then like doing doing this doing podcasts. Now when I listen to a podcast, I can be like, oh, that they've cut something out there like, I can hear that. That's like a cut. And I was I was listening to... have you listened to the Barack Obama and Bruce Springsteen podcast?
Sara:It's on my to listen list. So I will definitely get to it, but I haven't. But go ahead. Go ahead. Tell me.
Meg:It's literally so good and they're just like, so beautiful. But as I was, as I'm listening to it, I'm like, I wonder if I me and Sara sound this good?
Sara:Absolutely not.
Meg:We don't, we don't.
Hope:I don't know, I enjoy your podcast, so I would say yes. So yeah, I think you two do sound very good. And I'm always so intrigued and just enjoy listening. So I would say yes.
Meg:Thanks, Hope. Sara, does this mean that we're the Barack Obama and Bruce Springsteen of Leeds? Who's Who? Who's Who?
Sara:Err
Meg:You're Obama. 100% I reckon.
Sara:Thank you. I'm glad that you think I would be capable of running a country.
Meg:I think more so that I'm Bruce because I'm just like, really low key and cool.
Sara:I thought I knew you were gonna say that. You will give me whatever your throw away is. Yesterday, totally off topic, but it just reminded me so it was a lovely day yesterday, the sky was really blue and it was nice. Meg managed to turn the whole of the weather about her. It was mocking her. The weather.
Meg:It was a hard day yesterday, my hedge fell down. Hope are you in Leeds still?
Hope:Yeah, I'm still up here. So it was kind of weird when I'm at home, like working away. And I look up and it is just me in my living room. And I'm like, oh. I'm not a big fan of working from home. So I started at the Science Museum, like smack bang, in the middle of lockdown in August. So I've literally stepped in that museum twice.
Sara:Yeah I totally miss, I miss, like museum spaces and being around people and having those conversations. And I definitely, yeah.
Meg:So much of work, even though like we all have very digital jobs, anyway that can be done remotely. So much of working in museums is tactile, and so much of what we do comes from being around things and asking questions. Museum people generally weren't made for working from home alone. I don't think. I don't think many people are, but museum people definitely. How does it work with you then Hope? In terms of like the objects? Do you have like a spreadsheet that you work from? Or how do you work really closely with the curators and like, highlight some of the objects that you might have? Like, do you know that you're working from the human remains collection? Or how does that work?
Hope:Yeah, so it's a mixture of both. So when I first started, it was literally just them handing me a spreadsheet of like, objects and images and biographies they had on people already. And they're like, here are 1000s and 1000s of things on objects, images, and biographies. Go through it all. And pick the ones you think would make a good story or would work well, onto Wikipedia. And I'm like, um, so I kind of got in touch with curators, and I was like, I need someone to explain the medicine collection to me, I need someone to explain this collection to me. And kind of like, what projects are you guys working on so that we can not stress you guys out with adding more workload? Why not just combine what you're already working on, and find the small bits that can work on Wikipedia for you. There are definitely categories on the spreadsheet where they're like, Do not touch this bit, like, just leave that bit alone. Mostly, that's kind of stuff where we might not have the copyright to it. It's kind of sensitive information, such as things like human remains. And there's like just another one where it's like, things aren't properly catalogued, or put onto the collections site yet, so people might not have access to them. So those are kind of like the areas where they're like, yeah, don't touch these bits of the spreadsheet, just leave them be, but anything else free game, go for it, do whatever you need to do. So it is a combination of the two.
Meg:What's your favourite objects that you've come across for the Science Museum group and their collection?
Hope:Um, if we ever open up again, honestly, you guys should come by and I will show you like, all my favourite things. But um...
Meg:I've actually never been to Bradford.
Hope:Have you not? Oh you should definitely come.
Sara:You've never been to Bradford full stop?
Meg:No, I've never been to Bradford. I've been to the train station on a train and the train stop. If you're going to Hebden Bridge or Halifax, the train takes you to Bradford interchange and then everyone sort of sits there for a while and then the train goes back. It goes back like goes into Bradford and goes back out and then goes off a different way. But there's this moment where everyone on the train is all just looking at each other and no one's obviously saying out loud because we're all embarrassed and everyone's pretending like it's fine but there's people looking at each other going, why is the train going back what's happening don't know what's going on. And that's my only experience of Bradford.
Sara:You're missing out, Bradford's great.
Meg:I will I will definitely go we will definitely come and visit you Hope Sorry Hope we cut you off there, I cut you off to talk about trains. Go on, your favourite object.
Hope:So it's it's called a music graph. And it's like a typewriter that plays musical notes. And it was invented by a woman called Lily Pave. I can't remember her name. And she was like a music teacher. And she played a range of instruments. And she thought, oh, what's an easy way for people to write music if they don't know how to and kind of understand basic music theory. So she created this typewriter that plays musical notes instead of types letters, and it can write them like horizontally and vertically. So literally, any one of like any calibre of musical talent, or even people who have, like disabilities can use this typewriter and write their own music if they'd like to. And I think Yeah, I think that's just one of my favourite items. Because it's like, I never knew anything like that existed. I feel like that's weirdly insane, but also really cool at the same time. So I'd probably say yeah, that's one of my favourite items. I'm trying to... I'm trying to think of anything else that was like, Oh, that's really cool.
Meg:I've just I've just realised that you would be the best person on a quiz team.
Hope:I think anyone who works in museums would be great on a quiz team, because we acquire all this weird niche knowledge that we probably wouldn't use in regular life, but a pub quiz? Oh, we're on it. Definitely. Do you guys have any favourite objects?
Meg:Smez what's yours?
Sara:Mine's a cheat because it's Kirkstall Abbey.
Meg:That is cheating.
Sara:It's allowed. It's part of the collection.
Hope:It is, that's true.
Meg:To be fair, my favourite I don't know if you ever saw this Hope when you were at the Discovery Centre is part of the natural science collection. So we have the eye lenses of a Humboldt squid. And why that is a big deal and they look like little tiny pieces of Amber. I think I've said this on the podcast before actually it's ringing bells, but they look like tiny little round pieces of amber or like fruit pastels. But the orange fruit pastels and a lot of the time when you when you talk about mummification people assume you're talking about Egyptian mummies. I have said this on the podcast before because we set it in Adam Jaffer's episode and I got to tell him what this is. So I'm gonna tell it again. Once more from the top people. Okay, so people think that mummification is all about Egyptian mummies, but loads of other cultures also mummified their dead and Peruvian mummies are mummified sitting up. So Egyptian mummies are mummified, laying down and Peruvian mummies are mummified sitting up in like a crouched position, and their eyeballs would be removed and replaced with the lenses of a Humboldt squid, and those and the little tiny Humboldt squid lenses that we have at the Discovery Centre are from a Peruvian mummy. And you can take that to the bank. Wikipedia, take it to Wikipedia Hope.
Hope:I will take it to Wikipedia. Honestly, if you can find me the resource for it, I will gladly add that.
Sara:Oh my god our little inside Wikipedian.
Meg:Can you write Can you write us a page? And can it just have like loads of information about how unbelievably amazing we are? And we have like loads of fans like can't can't leave the museum without like, paps following us.
Hope:But unfortunately, I can't write you guys's Wikipedia page. It's a conflict of interest. I know you personally I'm not allowed to. So someone else would have to do it.
Meg:Sara did you have any other questions for Hope before we get on get on to our final questions?
Sara:I don't think so no, no, I had... I have on the document'These are not questions'. And I'm also incredibly embarrassed that I even thought about this, but I was trying to think of it.
Meg:She's highlighted it as well.
Sara:I have. So what came before Wikipedia. But both of you are too young to know Encarta, which was on available on a CD ROM and I just spend hours and hours when we first got our computer at home browsing Encarta. I thought it was the most incredible thing. And I totally forgot about it. And I think maybe that's where it came from that I really liked museums because I just liked finding bits of knowledge about stuff and looking at the pictures. And it felt really interactive at the time and Wikipedia was just on a whole nother level. So what I did on Wikipedia was I clicked random article to see what it came back as after Wikipedia-ing Encarta and the animal like a backwards was the national sewerage programme as in somewhere in Australia. So Wikipedia is definitely tracked me and gone. I'm going to give you a really awful article to read.
Meg:Or, it's gone. Sara's a national sewage programme.
Sara:Yeah. Yeah, I was pretty depressed but also impressed by Wikipedia. Again, to show my age.
Meg:Shout out to Wikipedia.
Sara:And Encarta.
Hope:Woop Woop.
Sara:The 90s. Anyway, yes... we digress, again.
Meg:I've just got some chocolate buttons because I haven't had any lunch yet.
Hope:Meg you need nutrition and sustenance.
Meg:Look at all the nutrition in that, choccy butt butts.
Sara:I want some.
Meg:Hope, can you go on the Wikipedia page for chocolate buttons and put chocolate buttons, also known as choccy butt butts.
Hope:I will I will, and I'll reference this podcast as the resource for it. I'll be like, mentioned in the Museums n'That podcast which you really should all listen to.
Meg:By Megan Jones, who is also known as the Bruce Springsteen of Leeds.
Hope:The Bruce Springsteen of the podcast world, yeah.
Meg:There you go. Do you know what's sad about that though, is that Bruce Springsteen now is the Bruce Springsteen of the podcast world.
Hope:Before that, it was you though.
Meg:Okay. Hope. You are a podcast listener. Sorry, I've got a mouthful of butts. Hope, you are a podcast listener. So you should know what's coming.
Hope:Oh, God.
Meg:First question. What has been your favourite day at work?
Hope:Oh, I think when we had the museum fuddle. And we all kind of like brought in treats. And like kind of got talking. I think that was the first time I actually probably got to know everyone in the team. Because I'd kind of seen people here and there, but we'd never, would never all be like, in the same room together. So I'd say that or when I got a tour of the Discovery Centre, and all of the objects within our collection. I really loved that and finding out all the different facts and that like, creepy dentist's chair. That's right outside. Yeah. Oh, and that weird doll that's like looking at you, but not really looking at you and would fully murder you at night?
Sara:Yep. I am always terrified. Because I don't have like a proper fob to go in. I don't have a fob to go in to the store.
Meg:Sara's not important enough, I've got a fob.
Sara:Yeah, I'm always terrified that I'm going to get trapped in that little vacuum bit between the corridor and the actual store where we like... all the dust mites live. And the lights are on a sensor. And once they went off, and it was just horrible. But again, store is always a good one.
Meg:They've got this one in the store, and generally around the museums, I think. But in the store, there's like loads of them. They've got these little traps. Remember the traps? Do you ever see them?
Hope:No. What traps for what?
Meg:Bears. Traps for insects to see. So you trap the insects and then there's like you just walk past and you just check which insects are in there just so you can see what little critters we've got in the store and whether they're good or bad.
Hope:Oh ok. Do we have good critters or bad critters? What's happening?
Meg:Sometimes they're good? Sometimes they're bad? It's a mixed bag.
Sara:Keeps us on our toes.
Hope:Yeah, love that for us. Wow.
Meg:Guys I think I might Sorry, Sara you can ask the next question in a second. But I think I might dip a choccy butt in some biscoff spread?
Sara:Yes. Okay. In the meantime, as we're waiting for this, I'm going to ask you out final question. It's a two parter. What would you say would be the sort of snippet or takeaway for our listeners?
Hope:Oh, I mean, the choccy butt butts are a number one contender. I'm trying we've discussed a lot to be fair. I'm trying to remember I think maybe when we talked about like our favourite objects, or the bridging of Wikipedia and museums together. I think Yeah, it'll be like the suitable option.
Sara:I was going to ask actually, I forgot about it at the time, but in a physical bridge, what would it look like?
Meg:I thought Rainbow Road. I thought it was gonna look like a rainbow.
Sara:I was going for like an old like a really traditional 18th century sort of pagoda style Japanese bridge in my head.
Hope:You know what, I'm a big fan of The Golden Gate Bridge. So it probably may look something like that. Classic bridge. Why not?
Meg:One of the best really.
Hope:Classic iconic, one of the best globally recognisable.
Sara:Do you know what, love it, no one else has decided. So yeah.
Hope:If you're gonna walk on a bridge, it might as well be the Golden Gate, do you know what I mean.
Sara:My natural extension and what's your favourite actual literal takeaway?
Meg:I bet this is gonna be like a really cool independent place that we've never heard of.
Hope:I've been obsessed with like, so I think it's like a little cafe called IF. Yeah, I have been obsessed with the breakfast burritos. It's gotten so bad. It got to the point where I was like, ordering it like every day. And I was like, I need to stop because this is an addiction. I don't know what it is. But it just it works so well. Like the eggs are perfectly done with like sharp cheddar. And then you've got like, tangy salsa and then crunchy hashbrowns. And it's, oh, it's a magical experience. I'm telling you it really is.
Meg:Brilliant. This is so Ron Swanson of you. I know we mentioned Parks and Rec earlier, but like you know how Ron Swanson just loves all breakfast foods. I wasn't expecting your takeaway to be a breakfast food, but this is interesting. Hope, thank you so much for coming on the pod. You've been such a wonderful guest. I've learned so many things. And I feel like the Wikipedia and museum friendship is one that I want to buy in. I want to be the third wheel in that friendship.
Hope:Thank you for even considering me for the podcast. I wouldn't think I would be like, I don't know an interesting person to do this with.
Meg:Oh my god, you've been so interesting. Hope. Thank you so much. Also I started this podcast with a tea and I'm finishing it with some water.
Sara:I wondered if you were going to make it more exciting than that then...
Meg:How do you make water exciting. With some H2O.
Sara:I drank a lot of water yesterday. You always tell me off for not drinking enough. I had such a bad headache. From drinking too much water. Isn't that wrong? Like surely you get headaches from not drinking enough water. Anyway, that was a good episode.
Meg:Anyway, enough of water consumption. Yeah, no, I really enjoyed that. I feel like...
Sara:I didn't know what to expect if I'm honest.
Meg:Yeah. Because you don't. With museums. I know we've said this a billion times. But with museums, you think curators, you think conservators, you don't like a wikimedian is not something firstly that I knew what that really was? And secondly, it's not something that you associate with a museum. But it makes sense, doesn't it? When you think about it?
Sara:Yeah, totally. And it's, it's just interesting how much it's sort of grown, I just didn't realise the scope for what it could do and how it could benefit. And, you know, it's kind of incredible, really, and it's a force for good, it feels like, which is great.
Meg:Yeah, I'm going to I'm going to jump the gun by the way here and say that my favourite learn was the fact that the Science Museum group use it as a free tool they're kind of embracing the fact that people are using it already. And using it as a way to talk about the parts of their collection that are potentially too sensitive for their own channels. Interesting, really interesting.
Sara:Yep, I have to agree. I think Wikipedia in itself is just this like, fascinating wormhole of information, but But yeah, I completely agree with you, that was my favourite learn as well. Sorry to be boring.
Meg:God you just literally want to be me so much. So embarrassing.
Sara:It's exhausting, isn't it?
Meg:Also, have you read the film? Read the film? God such a 21st century thing to say, isn't it? Have you read the book? Dune?
Sara:No.
Meg:Because you just said about wormholes. And it's just remind me that Dune, I'm reading Dune at the minute and it's a really good book. You should read it. Anyone else that's looking for a book recommendation. Dune.
Sara:Dune as in d-u-n-e?
Meg:Yeah, but I didn't know how to pronounce it. June. De... Dune.
Sara:Okay, interesting.
Meg:It is actually going to be a film.
Sara:There we go, so we can read the film.
Meg:You can read the film. Yeah, I cut you off. Sorry, what you're saying?
Sara:No, just the bridge between museums and Wikipedia and it being another channel that we can utilise for free that we know loads of people already access without really even thinking about it. I mean, when I was googling the history behind Encarta, I didn't even factor in the fact that I was looking at it on Wikipedia.
Meg:I wonder if Wikipedia was sat there thinking? Alright, museums have turned up now have they?
Sara:Yeah, probably.
Meg:Also, bridge to Wikipedia. Sounds like it might be the sequel to Bridge to Terabithia.
Sara:Oh, yeah, that's a great film. And book. Is it a book?
Meg:I literally don't know. Also, do you know what I watched last night.
Sara:Yeah, no, obviously I don't know.
Meg:The Terror. I was sat there thinking, basically, it's about like this mystery thing that happened where some people went on a voyage, you know, back in the day to find like the passage to America or something wasn't paying much attention. I was on my phone, obviously. And they got stuck in the ice. And no one knows what happened to them. Like they obviously all died. And it's like a big mysterious thing.
Sara:Spoiler alert, for anyone who hasn't watched it.
Meg:No, that's like the premise. So it's okay. We know we know that that's coming. We just want to know how and I think next series, we should find someone from like shipwreck museum or more about shipwrecks. Maybe like the Mary Rose.
Sara:Okay, yeah. They'll have some like Bristol way.
Meg:Mary Rose is in Portsmouth mate.
Sara:No but as an addition to... I know that Mary Rose isn't.
Meg:Alright. You want to go to Bristol, because you want to see Owen. Which is fair, he is lovely.
Sara:Absolutely, yeah. Yeah.
Meg:I just think shipwrecks really interesting. That's something that I always look at Wikipedia. Actually, shipwrecks.
Sara:I think this is in line with the fact that we are based in Leeds and we're so far away from the sea. So we want to do anything to bring that bring that home a little bit. Seaside theme, I like it.
Meg:Anyway, we've done our favourite learns. God we've done this in a weird order haven't we Smez. What do we even say now?
Sara:We tell everyone how great Tim Bentley is for providing our theme tune and how great Alex Finney is for doing our delicious cover artwork.
Meg:Thank you Timmy, thank you Alex.
Sara:And then we also ask people to subscribe and leave us a review because it really helps our ratings. Meg's favourite bit, transcripts are on the website.
Meg:Oh, yeah. transcripts are on the website. And and you can follow us on social media. I'm@MuseumMeg. Sara is@SaralMerritt, and you can also tweet us @LeedsMuseums because that's who we are. And that's it really. Sara what have you got for tea?
Sara:Oh, I don't know actually. Cause it's Luke's turn. I made tea last night. We had like a mixed mushroom risotto.You also had mushrooms I hear?
Meg:I had mushrooms last night but guess what I'm having tonight?
Sara:Sausage garlic bread traybake.
Meg:No, but God I wish I was I'm having Wagamama's takeaway.
Sara:Are you! Jealous. What are you getting?
Meg:Well, this is the thing. So I've never had a wagamama's takeaway before. I think I'm going to get going to be basic and get the katsu curry, but they're doing a new one. That is seitan. So I think I might get a seitan katsu curry, bang bang cauliflower, because it's bang bang, and maybe chilli squid.
Hope:Well, I might actually we might just go to the fish and chip shop.
Meg:Because you want to be Owen?
Sara:Yeah, I just want to be Owen and Steph.
Meg:I feel like I'm really pining after Owen. It's like a...
Sara:Little bit.
Meg:I am aren't I, God.
Sara:Is it because he changed his Twitter bio. After we talked about it? Oh, God, we're just chuffed about it.
Meg:Do you know why as well it's cuz I've just I've just
Sara:Maybe. 18th century garments. been editing his episode literally today. And God he just is just so wonderful isn't he. Do you know what, though? So is Hope. This is literally Hope's episode. Sorry. Hope, we love
Meg:No one knows what 18th century is. you. Thank you for listening, everyone. And we will see you in your earholes for our final episode of the series, which is going to be Vanessa Jones. Vanessa literal Jones is coming on the pod to talk about Smez. No not to talk about Smez imagine that.
Sara:Okay, a century that was from 1700 to 1799.
Meg:I'm willing to bet that's going to be a cracker as well. So do look out for that next week. Right now we actually are going, I'm hungry.
